Due to recent situations... I would like to say for myself: There are some bad seeds in the breeding world. There are those that run their mouths more than not. There are those who cannot mind their own business... There are those who seek any opportunity out and call other breeders to chat about another.
But those who yap, must remember, some of us simply do NOT sell to you, nor do we really care what you have to say, because all that is seeping from your lips is envy. Most of you who do this this loose lipped chatter are those of you who buy numerous dogs, then sell them, then buy more, and do not know which end is up, and have been unable to buy from those you really want to. "Rare" colors do not exist. Your reputations have all ready been ruined, and it does not put you in any better of a light talking trash of another. It will never help your reputation!!
THIS ALERT BELOW WAS WRITTEN BY ME, AND ME ALONE. I HAVE BEEN SENT TO MANY BREEDER'S SITES WHO HAVE THIS SAME ALERT. CHANGING FONT DOES NOT MAKE IT YOUR OWN. IF YOU WANT TO USE THIS - LET ME KNOW. I APPRECIATE THAT IT IS POPULAR, AND HAVE NO PROBLEM GRANTING PERMISSION I AM HAPPY TO KNOW MY WORDS RING TRUE....HOWEVER... THOSE OF YOU WHO HAVE STOLEN IT - REMOVE IT FROM YOUR SITE, OR ASK FOR PERMISSION! GIVE THE CREDIT WHERE CREDIT IS DUE, AND STOP STEALING!!
They say Copying is the largest form of flattery...
This is in no way an "alert" as to who is a "bad breeder", and who is not. Nor do we promote "secret pages" or "members only" password protected pages on our site. This is however an "alert" to types of folks you may want to be wary of. To those who are frequent visitors of this page, thank you for spending so much time on our site!
The internet is truly one of the greatest things invented. People can get anything with a simple click of a button from anywhere. But convenience can be a downfall, as well. That is part of the reason, convenience, that pet shops and other "undesirables" still operate.
Just keep in mind, anything can be written on the web by anyone. Whether good or bad, how much is actually legit or pertains to you, the perspective adopter?
Such things as "breeder wars", site competition, "good/bad breeder" websites, and line jealousy are nothing more than (the persons doing it/saying it) a highly unimaginative selling ploy, and is being used more and more commonly. Those that see these things promoted, should be wary of it. "Bad breeder alerts" work the same way.....sometimes the information is useful, and sometimes it is not.
A pup and it's breeder should speak for theirselves through no words at all, and not by the use of tactless selling ploys, whether it be in seriousness or "just for fun".
There is the thing breeders refer to as "breeder wars". Many times, these are stories or write ins or message board posts that are just one's good or bad experience - then they have their friends write in, or whatever, and it goes on and on to make it seem as though it is a real claim, whether it is or not. What's gossip if it is not juicy, so to speak? This is kept within a circle, and gets bigger like a rubber band ball with each new wrap. Then the other side gets into it. And like the old Atari game Pong.... well, you get the point! The grand word "Jealousy" is used - stating one breeder is jealous over another's lines. That one makes me laugh, personally. Everyone's lines go back to a certain few. With enough information on your pedigree, you just might find the same thing elsewhere, or even in your own! "Site Competition" - this one is fun. Certain people check another's site continuously, and pick it apart. Then they take the info and place it on their own site in a negative way, therefore attempting to down the initial poster. This is done so "stealing" is not an issue. This one is very common amongst a few. Lastly, "good/bad breeder" websites... The way I figure it, if you are all for AKC, they have a suspension list. That right there is internet proof, black and white type. If you want more hands on experience or facts, check it out yourself.
Take all the opinionated "information" with a grain of salt. Just like a restaurant...your friend can rave about the greatness of it, you go and it is awful. Obviously, you both will have a much different opinion, but who is right? Which one of you has the facts? Neither ~ you draw your own conclusions. It is always better to take the time and call, visit, go hands on, and do the leg work yourself. Do not rely on another's opinion for one of your life choices.
What I do think makes a bad breeder? One who lies, cheats, go against their words, makes up stories, specifically seeks you out just to "play you", one who does only the minimum, one who does not correct a wronged situation. I know all too many like that, but will not belittle myself to mention their names. And, it would only be my opinion, anyway.
I have heard both sides of whether people should adopt their pups from the internet or not. I have done both, and do not prefer one way compared to the other - there has been good and bad points with both. Before you adopt.... Research and speak with the breeder(s), visit their homes if possible - though this is not always possible when babies under 8 weeks are on their premisies. You should be able to ask most anything of your potential breeder. Before visiting or speaking to a breeder, you should gather yourself a list of questions that you can refer to if needed. A breeder should always welcome you to their premises (though they do have schedules, do not be offended, and new babies will deter this, but many will set up alternate locations to meet you with some of their dogs) and answer all your questions, whether it be then or later. Also, something to keep in mind... One of the best times to go breeder visiting is when there are NO puppies. This way, you are more tuned into your task rather then falling for that cute face. I will use a pet shop as an example. Puppies are always available. Either you walk in and buy because : a.) It was just sooo cute, I couldn't resist; or b.) I had to save that puppy...
Ask for references from previous puppy owners, what better reference is there? Ask about their general experience, experience with the breed, how the babies and parents are raised, where they are raised. Ask whatever you feel is important.
Bad Breeders
THREE PLACES YOU DO NOT WANT TO BUY A DOG FROM
PUPPY MILLS. We've all heard about these places, animals neglected, filthy, deplorable conditions, Some people go ahead and buy from them because they say they feel sorry for the puppy, but remember, if you buy you are adding to the problem and helping keep these people stay in business!! If they were not making money they would either stop breeding dogs or clean up their act. If everyone who came across these places refused to buy there, it would not be long before they did not exist.
PET STORES. Most of these puppies come from puppy mills, trucked in, usually from another state. The stores do not check out the places they buy from. They have no idea of the conditions these puppies were raised in. I have seen some of the worst specimens at pet stores. No responsible breeder would sell their pups this way. Also the prices are grossly inflated to make up for the high mortality rate.
BACKYARD BREEDERS. They call themselves "breeders", but about the only thing they know about breeding is to put two dogs of each sex together. They know little or nothing about genetics or heredity. They do not breed to produce quality, healthy pups - they breed because the male "down the street", so to speak, is handy, and a load of cheap pups will make a buck. I see this first hand, and it sickens me. There is a woman near me who calls herself a breeder. Her dogs are tied or caged outside in all weather conditions. Their cages have fallen over, covered in tattered tarps (meant for covering non breathing objects). She has a large sign that promotes AKC... oh boy.. AKC!! And that is supposed to mean something? Perfect dogs are AKC registered dogs, right? Awful...plain awful... Just the sight alone should turn you away. But, she's making a buck!! Why?? Because she is older? Her place is garbage filled? People want to help her dogs by "saving" them? ... Remember when you do"that", she is not going to buy more for those dogs or provide them with any better living conditions.
Some might say, "but it's cheaper", and I am sure it is! ...trust me you get what you pay for. A good breeder puts alot of time, effort and money in their pups, to assure you will have a happy, healthy pet, and will be there for you if by chance there is an unforeseen problem. Yes, a pup from a good breeder will cost more. A Cadillac costs more than a Kia. If someone's only concern is price, they should go to the local Humane Society. If you want a pet that's socialized, healthy, well bred, has a documented history & guaranteed, go to a reputable breeder.
We exclusively breed Shih Tzu. We do not practice or approve of cross breeding purebred dogs with others breeds. Developing a new breed requires very careful, selective breeding over several generations. Every breed has it's own issues, and haphazardly throwing two different purebred breeds together to produce a litter to sell is dishonoring both breeds involved. The results will not be consistent, and you basically have nothing more than a mutt. While this is a trend that many see as a quick money making opportunity, we strongly disagree with this practice and encourage you not to be taken in by these mixed breedings.
The Pet Store Visit
Just yesterday, (2/7) my mother and I were in the mall shopping for some clothes, when we passed by it...yea, you know, the "pet store". Of course, I just had to go in, I am a sucker for my own punishment. There she was, stuck in a wire cage with a Maltese. A black Shih Tzu, a tiny spot of white on her head, a tiny spot on her chest. Upon closer inspection, we noticed the d.o.b. on this animal. 2 months old. We studied her closer, and as we did, low and behold, a woman near us wanted to see her. The workers went behind that glass door that so many people every day pound on, driving those poor animals insane, and took this dog from it's cage, gave it to the woman who went in the "wooden box" to play with the puppy. As I walked through the store, using my little map as a mega phone saying "Don't buy puppies from the pet shop, they are mill dogs", loud enough for those around me to hear, but soft enough so I was not going to get kicked out, I became my normal nosy self, and invaded this poor woman with this animal in the "box". I leaned over the door where she was and stared at the puppy, almost forgetting she was there. She was holding up the puppy..it would not get down. Could that be because her feet hurt from the wire?? I am guessing yes. This dog was huge!!!!! Finally, the woman looked at me, and me, a bit embarrassed, told her that we bred this breed, and just cannot fathom that it was two months. She brought the pup over, and this girl had to be 7 pounds, atleast. I never in my life have seen such a sight!!!! Even a top of the standard size (16 lbs) Tzu is not going to be that big at 2 months. After looking at the coat, and it's teeth, I finally left that poor woman in her "box" with that dog. I checked out the other animals, little mini toy breeds not moving, their feet falling through the wire cages if they attempted to step. I have come to the conclusion that this was either a much older dog, or it was a mix..judging by the coat, I am going for a standard poodle/tzu mix. I attempted to ask the workers how long she had been there, or get some other info., but they must have heard me in my little "don't buy" speech cause they just ignored me. As we walked out, the woman from the "box" caught up with us. In speaking, we all agreed that there was no way this was a 2 month old dog, nor did we think it was pure. Then she told us the asking price.....
$1200.00
Yup, that was the price. Whew!!!! No shots, no microchips, no puppy packs, no pictures, no PERSONAL COMMUNICATION OR HISTORY!! That amount back to the miller, minus pet store fees, is probably 6 more dogs from the pet auction. Times that by 12 litters for each dog for 6 years..well it gets up there. All those puppies produced for a buck (or many bucks!!) How many will snap, how many are truly bred, how many end up homeless or killed? Please buy your puppies from a reputable breeder or adopt. When a breeder gives you a price, they are giving you a quality price. If you feel that price may be too much... Look around, visit pet shops, search the internet under puppy mills. There are some greusome pictures, it's pretty scary. You will find the quality money you spent on your puppy from the breeder is what you spend. That 1200.00 spent at the pet shop, will usually double due to all of the problems this animal will most likely have...that is, if you keep it that long.
10/9/04 Another visit to the pet store. I talk to this woman alot and she constantly says to me and others, "Im afraid I must say that buying a puppy from a puppy store is not always a bad thing. Puppies that end up there are ones that the breeders have undergone usda inspections to make sure the dogs and puppies are given adequate health care.....and....have been checked by at least two vets....but it is ingrained in our minds that we should not go that route" . Funny thing, though, she is a breeder. Ok, health check, thats the answer? As I was saying, I went to the pet store to see if maybe she could be right (ya know, benefit of the doubt). Out of the 30 dogs there, 3 were standing. Many of the cages were full of urine, feces, and being they are locked behind that glass, you can guess the smell. One dog standing in particular caught my eye, only because of what he was doing. He was licking the wire on the floor. That made me take a better look at the others. Not one food bowl in site. I look back at him, when he is done licking the wire - apperently not enough for a meal, he tried to walk around. He could, on 3 legs. His front paw must have had some problems (hmmm..from the wire??), he could not put any weight on it, and after about 5 mintues of really getting no where, he turned, looked at us with sad eyes, and fell down to the bottom of the cage. Just gave up. His paw was so swollen. I looked around for the pet shop guy, he had "went to the back". He would not come back out. I read the cage cards, sure, there was vet info on there, unpronouncable, scribbled names with no contact info. They had breeders' names there, most info was crossed out, cause I was going to call them. Ask them if they cared for what they brought to this world. Do you propose these "breeders" check where their animals go? Do you think they care? What good are " health checks" without love and socialization, and truly checking the animal? I could be sick as a dog (parden the pun), but know the doctor, and tell him to give me a clean bill of health. With enough bribery, or without enough concern from him, I could get one, right? I as a breeder care about where my babies go. I have many times out of the blue contacted the new parents just to say hi, and get an update. I know there are many like me as well. The inspections I receive from new prospective puppy parents mean a lot more than a usda inspection. Paying a lot of money to take each pup to my vet, who knows my dogs, means more than paying some for a piece of paper from an "unknown" who will send me on my way, whether it is true or false. Again, I say there is no good in pet shops. From the start...to the end.
*Note : USDA inspections/licensing/and the like - USDA on a federal level is very lienant in a sense. There requirements are basically food, shelter and water supplied to the animals, and they have a few specifications, and also inspect premises . Each states takes (or not) it up a level, and have their own laws regarding "being USDA or not". Willow Rose has been USDA registered and state licensed due to NY State Laws. While we are inspected on a yearly basis, we go above and beyond both the state (quite strict in NYS) and federal requirements in our homes (because thats where the babies are) and in our contracts compared to NYS laws and more so for federal. Please do not lump all USDA breeders in one catagory, as the state laws vary and it means different things in different states.
Many have asked the difference between line breeding and in breeding.
As per AKC, the definition as follows :
Inbreeding - The mating of two closely related dogs of the same breed.
Line breeding - The practice of mating a dog to a member of an earlier generation of the dog's bloodline.
Their thoughts on it and do they allow it:
The relationship between the Sire and Dam of the litter has no bearing on registration eligibility. Anyone who considers breeding their dog must consider temperament, health, and finding mates that complement each other. Breeding dogs that are closely related can fix certain characteristics, both desirable and undesirable. Therefore, we would expect that only very experienced breeders would consider inbreeding and line breeding. However, there is no rule that prohibits inbreeding and line breeding; this is left to the discretion of individual breeders.
